Try finding a church now that sings traditional hymns or doesnt use projectors and worship teams. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. Hybels' name should be mentioned, yes, but in a Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) sort of way, with seasonal or continuous confession and sorrow and repentance. Kudos to these two publishers. Uh oh..then we are in trouble. Yet, the faith grew in the midst of these awful circumstances. But David and all Israel beginning at Davids own house bore the consequences of the sin. Then the man of God acts as if nothing happened.. The gossip inspectors have arrived. At times I have even wondered if it is not even being used to distract from addressing the root of the problem. I understand why comments are moderated Im not criticizing. And then sometimes, you end up like me: done with it all, the system that props up people with give the title pastor, that is like fresh meat to the malignant narcissist. The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. And to think that Willow Creek notables have been hanging out with him! Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. And influence a few. @ Davis and Natasha: And Pastor/Apostles Passive-Aggressive Attack Dogs (Tsk. And then sometimes, you end up like me: done with it all, the system that props up people with give the title pastor, that is like fresh meat to the malignant narcissist. That isnt good for anyone. If you arent getting that from family, church and friends might conceivably help meet that need. Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. You think you know yet you dont. Even the word Unity really means conformity. And I go back to one of my earlier assertions about celebrity. Because TWW doesnt have a tick the box to be notified of future comments, and because my comments seem to go live straight away, I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. . When will people get it that the church is not the same thing as the body of Christ. I am still looking for the benefit to Nancy or the others for speaking upat all. Since you are well versed, go back to Jesus in the Garden the night he was betrayed. Having seen some of the comments by WCC supporters left at TWW, I can imagine the pressure and pain that she has had to face with her account. Dimensions: 0.6" x 5.4" x 8.0" Age Range: 18 years and up Paul Aurandt Jr. Best Study Bible! Eventually she tried to make a move and placed her hand on my thigh. We have preached a get of jail free gospel of buy the ticket and everything is as if it never happened. The retiring pastor calls it all collusion and lies. For many years, they were THE place when on job hunt. I have seen it for over 20 years. This pastor allowed abuse to continue under his nose and I am going to call him on it. These things dont work without followers and their money. If you have to go along with the silliness (never with evil) make sure you are being paid. And ironically, asking that question is why. What woman who may have had a relationship with Bill, but are now married, would want their name and reputation trashed? August 7, 2018. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Instead, these women were displayed like his leadership trophies. And then maybe they see it happening, confront the guy, he says understood and suddenly you and your husband are out of a job. Same play book. High five, yes, hug no. I want to express my gratitude to Nancy for coming forward. My first international trip with Willow Creek as a staff member was to Tasmania. We still do not know what that really means. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. @ dee: Read Paul on Mars hill. I absolutely agree that the same exact methods are used on both ends of the spectrum. @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): And Long Prayers will be said for justification. @ okrapod: (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). You see pastor do something and you know its off, but you rationalize it away I mustve misunderstood what was going on. Down the road, you something else, maybe far worse comes up, you think Oh, pastor, hes a little quirky, but he means well. You then experience something genuinely alarming, you think Well, hes an imperfect man, but God uses us all, no ones perfect.. So done. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Bigger news story is the Humbolt bus crash. Strange things are happening on Twitter on this case. If that were odd then I would change, but like I said that is just how we do. That is my point. What BH did is reprehensible. This is exactly what you would expect from some Neo-pharisee trying to hide his sin from the world. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. They can protect the vulnerable better if they wise up. Come Lord Jesus! It was through him that I first heard the Gospel as a nonChristian teen in a nonChristian family in Salem MA. Often, they blame themselves. It took her a long time to get up the courage to say enough was enough. Like they say, to each his own. No one walks away unascathed. Im not out to defend Rob Bell, but Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy, at least based on historical Christianity. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). Personally I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual connection. If you think they dont see our sin, you are fooling yourself. That is more unusual these days. The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. Since 1975, when Lynne & Bill Hybels started Willow Creek Community Church, Lynne has been an active volunteer at the church.For the last fifteen years she has engaged in ministry partnerships in under-resourced communities in Latin America and Africa. You are now in permanent moderation. I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. I do not believe Jesus would have ever behaved the way you and John are acting. Leaders who are ambassadors for Christ can cause crises of faith when they break the 3rd Commandment Thou shall not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. Nigerian pop song about a con man. Thats why it cant be measured in terms of numbers, and in the case of Graham and Hybels are likely massively inflated anyway, and again, they dont get the numbers credit in any event, because its not that simple, its an enormously complex process that leads anyone to this or that place where they hear a message that the Holy Spirit uses to tip them over the fence. Its all lies doesnt cut it and sounds ridiculous. -Behaviors went on for many years 1 Peter 4:8 etc. Once again, you are doing Satans work not Gods. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. No worries. Jodi Walle, who worked for John Ortberg, has written a note. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. Many years back Hybels started up the World Leadership Conferences which in reality means World Domination Conferences. Will the clay say to the potter, What are you doing? Or the thing you are making say, He has no hands ? Isaiah 45:9. I asked my mom once why she endured physical abuse so long from my father, and she gave me similar answers. To me (and probably to a lot of jurors), timely Disappearing of Evidence = ADMISSION OF GUILT. 1 in particular always made flirtatious comments. Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. There are films to prove it. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? Hybels appears to be trying to fade off into the sunset now. But Hybels and Willow Creek kept moving forward. I know. The term sometimes used is secure email. If you (the church at Ephesus) do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev 2:7. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. Publishing is a major part of a celebritys platform. As with many couples, there were times we couldn't imagine making it through another year, let alone another decade or two. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. When youre the victim of something creepy, such as abuse, suggestive sexual behavior or private narcissistic rage or whatever ugly thing from a pastor who holds himself up as a paragon of virtue, people often feel embarrassed at having been involved in it, even if they had nothing to do with the wrongful actions. Yep. Both are the same in outcome). Hybels idea on how a church should function was to go out and ask non-believers what a church could do to get them to attend. Now that these accusations are coming out in the open, some women have doubts that the skeptics will acknowledge the body of evidence about his behavior, and confront their own preconceived beliefs. Bye! I only hugged a co-worker once. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. You summed up my whole opinion of this mess. Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. Jesus wins. 8 comments. BTW, one of the drawbacks with the current format is we dont even see recent comments from older threads. Anybody who doesnt respect your boundaries, whatever they are, is suspect. So many Christians mix this whole thing up. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? I wonder if he knows? However it can also be decentralized and setup so that only the sender and receiver can read and no backdoor (and even they cant read if they lose the keys). Even our laws in the US lead to punishment o f one chooses to disobey them . Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? Go back to JBs April 16 comment. It does not promise moonlight, roses and a string quartet. My mom was abused sexually. She, too, encountered the Ambien excuse. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? You just described me. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. I can't apologize for his choices, but I do apologize for mine," she explained. I have yet to ask these people what they think of all this. We experience the aftermath to this day. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. is lynne hybels still married to bill. Jan 13, 2018. But is that truthful? Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. I would add that based upon reactions of his followers here, it becomes more obvious why. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. If she ever blew the whistle on his evil-doing, he had prepared in advance the excuse he would give to the elders in his church: I had taken Ambien! (Source: https://vondadyer.weebly.com/blog/vonda-dyers-statement-re-chicago-tribune-and-bill-hybels). In Megas there are layers upon layers of protective bubble wrap for guys like Hybels. That isnt good for anyone. I know, Ive been there. A brave woman called each person out, which led to subsequent allegations, Differences My problem with all of this is that I am no fan of or apologist for mega churches or mega stars of any stripe. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. Do it on your personal, not work, email. The next morning, Bill and I were the first ones at breakfast in the hotel. Nothing really bad happened. I grew up around some. I worked for a large pharmaceutical firm. I know men who are capable of hugging without copping a feel. I assume you mean well. As Bill Hybels learned, there's far more to romantic love than meets the eye. too much bowing down to the leaders, too much caliber, too much influence, too much power. We still need to get together on that religious research thingie. And he could also use the Ambien thing to slander Vonda if she publicly complained about the way he had treated her that night. Dee and Brad, have you read my series about Don Hennessys work? @ AbuseCrusher: And it all comes cloaked in the name of the Christianity and the Church. . Lets pretend we know what we are doing., When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou. So much! Dee and Deb, if you are able, can you please let Vonda know about my previous comment? They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. Or, this particular post on my research blog might be of note the Pyramid of Abuse and Culpability/Complicity. I pity you if thats the case. As has been pointed out above, many ways to digest the Bible; however a almost universal understanding is to be Christlike. Ruth Haley Barton, formerly of Willow Creek and trained at the very contemplative Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation in Washington D.C., wrote Invitation to Solitude and Silence, and teaches contemplative prayer through her Transforming Center. Thanks, Futurist Guy. Just went through the same unity emphasis, as if pointing out items needing accountability, oversight and review constituted disunity or unwarranted lack of confidence in church leadership. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? The solution? Then I started questioning that after quite a few! If this very not such a serious matter, their would be some humor in this. Publicado por Por stardew valley creepypasta septiembre 22, 2021 tvistevgen ume flashback Por stardew valley creepypasta septiembre 22, 2021 tvistevgen ume flashback If there is a 40 year pattern of behaviors, it doesnt matter. Its not a numbers game, its not like worldly sales with rainmakers and marketing and big hits. Bill Hybels stepped down. but I know you dont have that set up. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. The naked woman swimming around the boat incident he related in a way to make himself appear understanding and concerned for her welfare. Weve both been busy with writing projects and many other things. These things are often expected immediately in the Christian world. Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. And of course, the crisis management priority hangs over all of this. She was still hoping that he had changed. The pastor didnt understand that this was not about sex but about control and power. Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. Bill Hybels and Willow Creek, Ravi Zacharias, Steve Timmis and Acts 29, Hillsong New York City pastor Carl Lentz, James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel are just a few of the names I could list. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. Why is it people cannot just go to work,college, etc, without the social safety net of artificial group belonging? Your comments prove your ignorance and arrogance. On Tuesday, Illinois megachurch pastor Bill Hybels announced that he's resigning amid sexual-misconduct allegations made by church members and employees. Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? People will walk away from Jesus Christ because Billy Hybels is not who they thought he was? Instead, we are the be faithful to our calling. What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? The issue with those who had represented themselves before God and man as being in a place of spiritual authority with the responsibility tojudgment were made public spin). Given the name Cephas, walking on water (for a time), given the keys of the kingdom and the charge to strengthen the brethren and feed the Lords sheep, speaking out on Pentecost after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, sharing the Gospel with Cornelius and the Gentiles, and everything else listed in Acts 1-15. That is a typical church response. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. Assuming TWW readers have spent some time absorbing background and details about Bill Hybels and the evidence from the women who came forward with accusations, what do you see as possible points and patterns with that case study, compared with those of Joss Whedon and Lawrence Krauss? Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? . The news of the divorce came as a shock to many, as the couple had always seemed to have a strong and healthy relationship. Jesus Christ is the assessory. Wow!!! There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. I scream enough already. Was it addressed and ignored by the elders? @ Julie: Very valuable comment. The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. Look up who are semitic people. That seems inappropriate. Pastors are still afflicted with sin as is everyone. Forgiveness after repentance is one thing (and a rare thing if someone never actually admits to anything beyond a mistakes in judgment were made public spin). This was not about a long hug. And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. (My roommate confirmed with the Tribune) When I got to the room, Bill had wine opened and waiting. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. I stayed silent, but I now see that Im not alone. That ambien thing sounds like plausible deniability, doesnt it? The entire Gospel is predicated on the fact that we are sinners and that we are going to be sinners until we go home. Well, yes, absolutely. WITCHES! Updated | Rev. It is the Spirits job to convict and change.. Most common reaction in the world. I went back to my hotel room and cried, not understanding what had just happened. I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way. The Old Lutheran website has a bunch of shirts and coffee mugs with the word saint on one side and sinner on the others. Do adults really need to know the details of the sleep-overs or the email content before drawing a conclusion? As much as many hate reformed doctrine, there is much less of this particular error. Brad, given my age, their is a high probability that I was taking college bible class before you were born. May 28, 2021 45 Dislike Share Benjamin Ady 56 subscribers At Willow Creek South Barrington's Congregational Meeting May 2021, with about 200 Core Committed members present, Senior pastor Dave. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. I dont think he deserved that. Gregory of Nyssa was about as Orthodox as one can get, and yet he was also about as universalist as one can get. What a great article! @ Headless Unicorn Guy: https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2018/04/12/resource-bibliography-on-willow-creek-church-situation-and-bill-hybels-reported-misconduct/. What happened to Willow Creek? @ okrapod: Hee hee. None of the first seven ecumenical councils dealt with this topic, which pretty much means that the line of heresy was never defined. Learn to value yourself. A less intimidating way to do that is a diary of sorts. My bad. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. If WC folds, its a clear indication. How would it be possible to remain as a staff member and not address the issue? This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. FWIW, Id love the notification option tooI have the opposite problem as Barb. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed. Drawing as much of the world into church as they can, while still appearing to be Christian. Or been involved with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior Church. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. 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